Episode 60 – Vanilla assumptions

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Wherever you are I hope you have blue skies. Welcome to That Other Lifestyle podcast. I am your host Jayson, leave Vanilla behind as we talk about the assumptions Vanilla people have about the Lifestyle.

This podcast is for adults only. We’ll be diving into adult and sexual topics with plenty of colorful language, so it’s not safe for work. If you’re under 18, this isn’t the place for you. This show is all about exploring the lifestyle and ethical non-monogamy, and it’s open to everyone no matter your background, gender identity, expression, or personal truth. While I do my best to use inclusive language, you might hear terms like husband, wife, or partner for simplicity’s sake. This show is for everyone, lifestyle, vanilla, or the curious.

Want to connect? Send me an email to host@thatotherlifestyle.com, visit my website at thatotherlifestyle.com, and check out my favorite lifestyle product recommendations at benable.com/thatotherlifestyle. Everyone is welcome here because the lifestyle is about so much more than you think.

I threw out the original topic for this week. It was supposed to be about vetting other couples. You know, something useful and practical, where I walk you through how to build your personal vetting process, share a few hilarious disaster stories from my own life, help the newbies out. Did I do that? Absolutely not.

Because plot twist the topic just didn’t resonate with me this week. Not yet, anyway. I’m letting it marinate. Or ferment. Or percolate. Whatever brain chemistry requires. We'll circle back to it once I figure out what the hell I need to say on that topic.

Meanwhile, I’m over here frantically rewriting my entire script for the week. See, normally, like a responsible adult, I outline on Monday, write on Tuesday, proof on Wednesday, and record on Thursday. Brand new 5000 word script from scratch with a deadline tomorrow. About a topic I found scrawled in my notebook. I am so good at adulting.

Going down my list of potential topics, how to do sex better, what happens if you get outed, lingerie, better oral sex, how to connect physically, how to start a swinger tribe. Giving everyone a window into future topics. Three words jump out at me. “Vanilla People, why?” There is no explanation, three words. No context or quantifying words. And I have no memory of writing it.

I’m 90% sure I wrote that in a dazed shuffle into my office at 2am and wrote this down. Inspired by a dream or a half-baked thought, where I must have encountered vanilla people, the previous day being very vanilla. And I figured, oh yeah, I will definitely remember this entire complex thought tomorrow morning.

BUT. Good news. That blurry, chaotic scribble actually sparked something:

Instead of teaching you how to vet other couples this week, I’m gonna burn some myths to the ground. Get the fucking torches. We’re going to talk about vanilla people's weird assumptions about the Lifestyle. We're going to debunk them. Educate. Enlighten. Maybe start a small cult.

And if it devolves into lunacy and rambling? Well, at least you’ll know I stayed on brand.

We need to talk about what are swingers. Specifically, when I say that word, I bet you are now imagining two cis white heteronormative, older, couples, probably affluent, sitting in a hot tub in central Florida, naked. That’s the image most people have in their heads of what a swinger is. Swingers are lurking in the bushes to invade random strangers hot tubs with a margarita in their hands and lust in their eyes.

This is not true. I can tell you this is not true. People in the Lifestyle, which is what most people use in place of the term swingers, do not fit into this mold. Granted there are people who fit into this mold. And they probably call themselves swingers.

We do not all live in retirement communities. We do not all own hot tubs. Okay I did own a hot tub at one time. But I got rid of it when we started in the Lifestyle. Hot tubs are not nearly as conducive to sexy time as people think.

The modern lifestyle in this year of 2025 is way more inclusive than people think. Vanilla people will assume that everyone in the Lifestyle falls into this rigid swinger category. As in a cis heteronormative married couple having sex with another cis heteronormative couple. That is the traditional definition of swinger perpetuated by the media. For those in the lifestyle, some do, some don’t, most people prefer to say we are in the Lifestyle versus outright identifying themselves as swingers. Some people do use that term, proudly reclaiming.

I won’t get into the appropriateness of the word swinger. What I will say to the vanilla crowd is that the Lifestyle is way more inclusive than we get credit for. People are allowed to be bisexual or explore their fantasies in ways that fall outside the traditional foursome. Whether someone is bisexual, asexual, polyamorous, lesbian, gay, straight, everyone is welcome the Lifestyle.

Swinger as a word excludes play styles. How about that one for an assumption too? There are different play styles in the Lifestyle. Some people are into hotwifing or gangbangs or basic vanilla fuckery. No right or wrong way to do the Lifestyle and as a community we won’t exclude anyone based on their particular play style.

And another thing. Talking about genital smashing, no we will not have sex with anyone, anytime. We do have standards. We do have people we are physically attracted to and not attracted to. There is a pervasive myth in the vanilla world that we are all sex crazed heathens, indulging one night stands with random strangers.

That is the furthest from the truth and breaks down under any kind of scrutiny. You are not attracted physically to every single person you meet on the street, are you? There are certain body types, features, and mannerisms that you find attractive and arousing. If a person is completely lacking in the features and mannerisms that you find attractive, you don’t want to have sex with them. Why would assume a person in the Lifestyle does not have the same concept of attraction as a person in the general population?

And another thing. That will be a running joke throughout this episode. One long rant. People in the lifestyle are not trying to turn people in the general population, as a whole we are not. I say that with a caveat. Yeah, some people are.

If a friend shares with you that they are in the Lifestyle they are most likely sharing with you because they want to share a part of their life and they feel comfortable to share that with you. Be happy for that. Most people never share their participation in the Lifestyle. More on that later.

Anyway, if someone does share their sex life, probably not looking to convert anyone. Now there is a population of people in the Lifestyle who yes, they actively pursue and enjoy flipping vanilla people. I don’t like this and most people in the lifestyle don’t like this.

I have seen this and I don’t like it. A lifestyle couple is at a bar scoping out attractive people. They set sights on a cute young couple. The wife will go stand next to the couple to order a drink. While she is standing there, she will strike up a conversation with the other woman to feel out the situation. If there might be a spark there, then the first wife will signal her husband to join her. The Lifestyle wife will then move to talk to the other husband, while the lifestyle husband starts talking to the vanilla wife. I watched this. I didn’t like it. I may have fucked up the mojo by interjecting myself like a jerk. Maybe that happened.

At this point what happens, the two women are talking, lifestyle wife compliments vanilla to see how she takes it. Then the lifestyle husband will compliment the vanilla wife to see how the vanilla husband reacts. Back and forth. Light arm touch. Copious amounts of alcohol. Then the lifestyle couple will offer to take the vanilla couple to a second location. Maybe another bar, maybe a hotel room if they think this is locked down.

I don’t know what happens after that we don’t engage in this behavior. I can imagine. This nice vanilla couple, who never discussed swapping or being in an open marriage have a night of awkward uncomfortable sex with a predatory lifestyle couple. The vanilla couple may feel shame. The lifestyle couple feels accomplished cause they flipped another one.

This is not acceptable to the vast majority of lifestyle people. That vanilla couple is not equipped to handle what happened. Who knows how much alcohol played a role? Did they consent properly? We have rules about consent for a reason. Nope, not a fan of this behavior. It happens and I wish it didn’t. And that is the same attitude of other people in the Lifestyle. This is a choice a couple makes with clear minds and education. Not a random hookup at a bar with too much tequila.

I say all that because the segment of Lifestyle people who engage in that behavior is very small and it is frowned upon by the lifestyle community.

But it can also happen that a couple is just being friendly. People are super uncomfortable with strangers being friendly. Being nice. Do not automatically assume people are swingers just because they are nice. Do not assume anyone is in the lifestyle unless they specifically tell you.

But Jason, I saw this list online that told me all the secret symbols that people use to advertise that they are lifestyle out in public. Okay. That list is bullshit. It originated online around 2010 and gets regurgitated whenever it is a slow news day. Let me guess that list included pampas grass and black rings?

I did a whole episode on the secret swinger symbols. I think it was my second ever episode and I am doing a whole series on my YouTube channel, that other lifestyle, debunking all this bullshit.

Here’s the truth. Ready. Most people, like 96% of people who into ethical non-monogamy, in whatever form, polyamory, lifestyle, gangbangs, whatever, do not want people to know. Because of that, they do not advertise it. Simple. We don’t want vanilla people knowing what we do.

Yes, we hide it for reasons. Social acceptance, moral acceptance, parents, kids, jobs. People have very good damn reasons to not tell everyone they are in the lifestyle. Which also means not waving around secret symbols that everyone knows.

But Jason, I went to a bar one time and saw a lady wearing a black ring. That means she is a swinger, and the internet told me this and blah blah blah. Look here is what really happened. You saw a person in a public location, wearing a piece of jewelry. That’s it. None of these secret symbols will give you one iota of actionable intelligence. None. Unless that woman flat out tells me, I like to have sex with men I am not married to, I will make zero assumptions about her sex life. And this is coming from someone on the inside.

I know many, many people that will party hard on a Saturday night, crawl out from an orgy and be at work on a Monday morning and you would have no idea what they do for fun. Why does the vanilla world care?

Morbid curiosity. Same reason people listen to true crime podcast. Everyone knows how I feel about them at this point. It’s human nature. People want to know what their neighbors are doing and with swinging, since it is not social acceptable, it makes the act of knowing about it all the more juicy. Would anyone care if a couple decided to change the carpet in their living room? Granted there are some pissy toxic people out there who would then hypothesize on how someone could afford it, or the color is wrong, generally have an opinion on something that doesn’t concern them in the least bit.

People are nosy. Especially the kind of people who have boring lives, boring jobs, boring marriages, boring kids. They want gossip to make their lives more interesting by sharing it. Lacking any hobbies, I guess gossiping about the neighbors is a good substitute.

Look do you share with your neighbors whenever you have sex with your husband? Do you share what you had for dinner? Do you share what tire pressure is in your car? I bet there is someone out there who wants all that information. Devoid of their own thoughts and fulfillment they will fill the hole in their souls with the most mundane gossip imaginable.

Yeah, if they found out their neighbor is a swinger, everyone is going to know. These people have nothing of their own so they will share someone else’s business instead. That’s the way I look at it. The ones who are super nosy and gossip all the time. If their life is full and fulfilled, what the hell does it matter what I do on the weekend?

Most of the secret swinger symbols that people assume we use, are things that we put in our yard like pampas grass or a way to advertise to other swingers to identify ourselves publicly like putting a pineapple on the front porch when we host an orgy. People imagine those in the lifestyle want them to know and if they can decode our secrets then they will gain the knowledge they so desire.

There is no secret symbol. There are no secret symbols. We don’t need them. We have the internet to meet other couples. Maybe in the long long ago before digital communication, yeah couples had to be discreet and use secret means to communicate and identify each other. Not no more. We got websites for that.

It’s that gossip factor I can’t wrap my head around. People want to know about the miseries of others. People assume the only reason anyone would willing choose to swap partners is because their marriage is bad, and they are trying to fix it.

This is so far from the truth it would require a telescope. Most marriages in the lifestyle are good. Good strong marriages filled with love and commitment and communication. The spouses genuinely like and love each other. They express that love fully and openly. I can say I have met people who joined the lifestyle, and their marriage did not last. But I refute any blame put onto the lifestyle for the marriage not working out.

It wasn’t the lifestyle. They had problems before, and the lifestyle amplified those problems. If a marriage is good, the lifestyle will make it great. If the marriage is bad, the lifestyle will cause it to break. I have seen it happen. I don’t blame the lifestyle though. If a couple maintains proper communication, respects consent, sets appropriate and good rules and boundaries, this can work really well. If they don’t do any of those things, yeah it won’t last.

Maybe I am preaching to the choir with all this. You are a lifestyle person who already knows all this. I hope I do have at least three vanilla listeners who are genuinely curious about what goes on behind closed doors and this can help dispel any assumptions.

This is a secret society in that we operate on our own rules and etiquette. We have ways to identify ourselves, with fucking websites not anklets. People want to know what goes on. I will tell you, fully and openly and honestly. Tune in every week for a new lesson in the wild lifestyle. Don’t leave yet episode ain’t over.

A prevailing myth, not just about the lifestyle, but anyone who enjoys sex is that they are dirty. This one drives me nuts and to illustrate my point, let’s go back to the wonderful years of 2010 -2014. Granted this show is over ten years old, still applicable. There is an old game show called Baggage that we watch reruns of. IMDB describes it as: Dating game show where three potential matches reveal embarrassing secrets from small to large suitcases. The contestant eliminates one after the medium cases, then picks between the remaining two's biggest secrets to find their match. And it was hosted by Jerry Springer. Yeah, that guy.

On one episode, a man revealed that his baggage was that he dated a porn star, to which the lady who was doing the picking was so bothered and revolted. Even made a comment about how she worried he might have a venereal disease. Her words not mine. That guy was sent home because of a past girlfriends involvement in the porn industry.

A different episode, this dude, his baggage was that he frequented STD clinics because he refused to wear condoms. On national television that would play in reruns into perpetuity, he told the world he does not wear condoms and as a result has to get tested for STIs. The contestant picked that man. She picked him. He doesn’t use condoms. What the shit.

I will fully admit I would have sex with a porn star in a heartbeat and not think twice. Want to know why? Because they get tested every two weeks. Pick a random vanilla person, bet they never got tested in their life. Well, they don’t need to get tested because they are with just one person. Really. Monogamy does not stop STIs, sure it will diminish the chance of it happening, but that’s not 100%. Even abstinence is not 100% foolproof. The hell. No, you may not catch chlamydia, but there are other STIs that you can catch without having sex.

Just cause STI means sexually transmitted infections, does not mean that sex is the only way you can catch them. It is a designation of infections that are transmitted sexually but you know what so is a cold and strep throat.

People in the lifestyle get tested. We know our status. Do you know yours? I partnered with STDHero.com because I believe in testing, I know how important it is, and I know that as a community we take this very seriously. Some people. Some people raw dog life. I imagine they are also the kind of people that don’t wear seatbelts or use alarm clocks. Use my promo code TOL15 for 15% off at STDHero.com.

Yes, we take precautions to minimize the risks associated with having sex with people we are not married to. Including condoms and regular testing.

 In regards to having sex with married couples, not as frequent as people think. It is not a constant free for all, every night of naked bodies. There are people who are very active, there are people who are not active. There are people who have sex with new couples every weekend and others who do it once a year. Everyone engages with the Lifestyle at their own pace and their own comfort level.

People will assume this hobby, this lifestyle is all orgies and key parties. Love to burst the bubble on this one. First orgies. Yes, I have been in orgies, yes, I have organized them. Let me tell you, they are a right bitch to put together. They are rare for reason. Maybe one a year if you are lucky. They are rare because you need the exact right combination of people, attraction, interest to pull it off. And that is hard to force to happen. I have been at a lot of lifestyle gatherings, maybe ten people and I know a dude watching from the outside would think, any moment now they will all start making out and get naked.

Nope, we played cards and board games all night. No nudity. No strip poker. Nothing. Another time my wife and I stumbled into an orgy in a hotel room. Quietly nodded, waved, closed the door and bounced. It happens. Can confirm that. Not as much as people think.

And key parties. Fucking key parties. I did a whole episode debunking this one. Key parties are Hollywood shorthand and bad writing for television shows. Want to show this group of people are deviants and wild? Make the setting a key party or show a fishbowl with keys in it. Subtle hint right there. They don’t happen.

The logistics of setting this up are mind blowing. But Jason I saw this TikTok. I saw the same TikTok. It’s fake. It’s a fucking TikTok created for you to watch, consume and someone getting paid for it. In the general lifestyle world, without a camera involved, no key parties do not happen.

Other cliches? Hot tubs. We had a hot tub when we started in the lifestyle. And I got rid of it. We did try the sexy thing, four naked people in a hot tub and that descended into chaos. Four people in a hot tub, two dudes are going to touch, even if it is just their legs, they going to touch. Not that bad. Let’s get to the bad. Sex in a hot tub is a terrible idea for women. Do not do this. More yeast infections have come from hot tubs than yoga pants.

Another downside, if you mix a hot tub with alcohol and Viagra, it is a bad night. Trust me. There are probably warning labels somewhere on these products to stop this behavior or there should be. Those three things mixed together will lead to a drop in blood pressure which causes people to fall, right out of the hot tub. Trust me.

There is also a cliché of the older couple out looking for fresh young singles to seduce and bring back to their hotel. Okay this one, well I did a whole rant on how I don’t like people who go after vanilla people. So, yes this could be a thing. Splitting hairs. Yes, let’s do that.

The cliché is that there is an older couple at a bar who sends a drink over to a single woman, or man. Then the woman approaches to feel out the situation. Then the man approaches and then wham bam everyone is naked. Does this happen? It must right. It does.

The hair-splitting part, most people in the lifestyle do not operate this way. We will not approach a random stranger at a bar. We will not assume someone is interested in us like this. I won’t discount this completely; I will share how most couples meet other people in the lifestyle though for comparison.

We have websites we use. Just like there are dating sites for every single kind of person out there, there are dedicated dating sites for people who engage and believe in consensual or ethical non-monogamy. You can make a profile and look through other profiles. Like any other dating site. I know everyone who is on one of these sites knows what the deal is by signing up and I know everyone on this site is green light go to engage with.

A random stranger at a bar, I don’t know them. I don’t what they are into, and I don’t want to find out and I don’t want to make assumptions. Boom tying it all back together. The cliché of a couple looking for a single at bar, I question some shit here. Why aren’t they joining the other lifestyle people over here in the safe spaces? Why are you cruising bars? Might be a kink sure. I might be looking for new people. Okay. Still, I question it. Why go through the headache of dealing with a random person when there are websites full of people who are into the same thing you are.

There are presumptions that the Vanilla people make about the lifestyle. I equate it to sports teams and social organizations. On one hand the vanilla world thinks that the Lifestyle, swingers, open marriage, ethical non-monogamy is a monolithic social group with central leadership dictating the rules. Akin to a social club like a Mardi Gras crew or Elks Lodge or even the Freemasons.

There is an assumption that there is leadership at the top that makes decisions for this group regarding culture, language and etiquette. To go along with that idea that this is a social organization, there is an assumption that people in the Lifestyle want to actively recruit new people to join, which we don’t. But people think we do. Hence why vanilla people get all weird when they learn someone is in the lifestyle

They assume that we are trying to recruit them because we want to have sex with them and the thought that someone other than their spouse wanting to have sex with them makes them uncomfortable. Maybe they are intrigued, maybe they are flattered. Maybe they hide their interest behind a wall of shame and disgust unwilling to even entertain the possibility or admit to themselves, that yeah this could be fun. Then there is a swirling vortex of insecurity and emotions that they are unable to deal with.

Or the opposite, that if a person in the lifestyle does not try to recruit them, then vanilla people assume that no one wants to have sex with them, they are unworthy of recruitment and their feelings are hurt.

For the vast majority of people in the lifestyle, they are not actively trying to recruit new people into the lifestyle. Can’t say it doesn’t happen. There are outliers here. I think the extent for most people is just sharing we are into this hobby, wanted to share and that’s it. We are not actively trying to turn or flip vanillas.

That process sounds incredibly difficult, tedious, unpleasant. So, we don’t do it. I don’t want to be the one to have to educate and then convince someone to possibly ruin their marriage if they are not ready for it.

I get asked by people the question, Hey Jason we told our friends about the lifestyle, and they seem interested. What now? There is an adage in the lifestyle, you make friends out of swingers, not swingers out of friends. I will offer this advice. If your vanilla friends are genuinely interested in the Lifestyle, they need to go get educated on their own. You should not be the sole source of information about this. Send them off to all the online resources and this fantastic podcast to learn about the lifestyle on their own, giving them autonomy and freedom to make up their minds without you involved in the conversation. But I digress. Where was I, the other assumptions that vanilla people make.

We are not a secret society. We are a society that stays secret there is a difference. There is no central leadership here. This society and culture are all organic, reacting independently, even down to the individual level to the societal zeitgeist, personal experience and tribal bonds.

The other assumption that vanilla people make equates to sports teams. If you are a big fan of a team, you will proudly display their colors, jerseys, watch the games. People know you are a fan because you are telling them through your social identity. That does not apply to people in the Lifestyle. For the most part, while being in the lifestyle is part of our personal experiences, it is not their entire social identity. They see themselves as parents, employees, friends, neighbors first before they see themselves as swingers.

We do not display signs of being in the Lifestyle because while being a football fan is socially acceptable, engaging in consensual non monogamy is not. It just ain’t. It is easier for the psyche to keep that shit under wraps than deal with any headaches that may come along with it.

That’s why Lifestyle spaces are so important to us. Be it a club or venue or campground. It is a space where we can fully express ourselves away from the judgement, and that is what it is, judgement of the vanilla world.

This is not about excluding Vanilla people. There is another assumption that we are excluding people. We are not. Everyone is welcome, just like I say in my disclaimer every fucking week. Everyone is welcome regardless of what you look like, that’s the big one vanilla people hang up on. They say well, I am excluded because I am overweight or too short or the wrong hair color, whatever they pick. And you are not excluded based on your physical appearance or gender or whatever you are attracted to and want to fuck.

We, in the Lifestyle, want to make sure that those who are included share our collective values first. No one is judged based on their physical appearance, granted not everyone will want to fuck you, but you are not excluded from our spaces based on that. People are excluded from these spaces by not being body positive, sex positive and the big one, not respecting and understanding consent.

I encourage Vanilla people, if you are curious, learn. If you want to know, more ask. The lifestyle is not solely based upon fucking other people. When you want to join a fun, open, free society of like-minded people looking to make friends and reject societal norms, we will be waiting.

I always appreciate hearing your feedback and comments on episodes or suggestions for topics, so feel free to reach out to me at host@thatotherlifestyle.com. My website is thatotherlifestyle.com.

My personal disclaimer, I am not a medical professional nor a trained and certified educator of any kind in any way. I am a guy with a microphone, sharing my personal experiences with you. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only and please join us for the next episode. Remember STI testing is important and takes a community to make a difference.  Go to STDHero.com and use my promo code TOL10 for 10% your order.

Whatever you may do today, I hope you have a fantastic time doing it. Know that you are appreciated and loved. Have a great day.